conference<\/b><\/a>\u00a0is about leadership, what do you see as the main skills and competencies the next generation of changemakers needs to have?<\/b><\/p>\nI don\u2019t think there are specific skills a changemaker needs, it\u2019s more of a mindset. It\u2019s not so much about knowing how to code a page or how to write a report, it\u2019s about knowing that it\u2019s okay to fail. For me, that is one of the most important things. Don\u2019t make things perfect, because perfect doesn\u2019t exist. Also, you must be open regarding the opinions of other people. People with amazing ideas expect others to follow, but the moment you share it, your idea changes. You must expect this change and appreciate it. It\u2019s about being willing to take the first step, while not leaving others behind. So foremost: failing is okay and do it together.<\/p>\n
You showed a video about initiators and followers, where one person starts to dance in a unorthodox way and is then joined by others one by one. What is the message you want to convey?<\/b><\/p>\n
All big movements and organisations consist of more than one person. As human beings, all the things we achieve, we achieve because people work together. The idea of this great big thinker, who sits alone in his room and finds solutions, that\u2019s not the reality. Even historically speaking that\u2019s not true. The most amazing ideas we have had as human beings are the outcome of an exchange of opinions, experience and knowledge. If you want to do something, let others join you, let them be part of it, appreciate their ideas.<\/p>\n
It seems to me in the past there was more emphasis put on vertical structures and leaders on top of these structures. Now there is more talk about everyone having to be a leader.<\/b><\/p>\n
There\u2019s a debate ongoing on this question. There are people that would like to have someone in charge, so they don\u2019t have to take the responsibility themselves. This is also something you have to sort out \u2013 if you are a leader, you have responsibility for those who follow you. If you have a company or an NGO and you have 20, 50, 500, 5000 employees or members, you are responsible for them. Leadership means responsibility so I don\u2019t think everyone wants this kind of responsibility. What has changed is the perception of leadership due to social media platforms. We have this idea that if you\u2019re on Instagram and you don\u2019t have thousands of followers, then you\u2019re not really important. Same goes for Twitter and others. I think what is more important is what drives you, what would you like to achieve, where do you want to be in a year or five. Do you want to be the boss of something or are you maybe more comfortable with being the one in the background organising everything because this is who you are? It\u2019s more important to not necessarily lead others, but to lead your own life and contribute to the change you want.<\/p>\n
It seems social media is the driver of societies becoming more and more polarised. Do you see a new type of leadership that could cross these divides in societies?<\/b><\/p>\n
I don\u2019t think we need a leader to connect everybody. That\u2019s not going to work. We need to be able to talk about the challenges we face as a society and we need to appreciate the fact that sometimes we are wrong. Being wrong is okay \u2013 for politicians, for everyone. Sometimes you are wrong, whoever you are. That\u2019s the change we need in our mindsets. We have to talk to everyone, and we have to accept that \u2013 core values such as human rights aside \u2013 we can talk about everything. For example, climate change is real, we have to tackle that challenge. The question is how. This is where we have to have open and reasonable debate. And we also have to accept that we won\u2019t agree. There will be things where we will not agree. And then we\u2019ll have an election, or a vote and we have to make a decision and accept the results, no matter if we agree or disagree. That\u2019s the important thing about the democratic political system \u2013 democracy ensures we get the politicians and the politics we deserve. This also means it\u2019s our responsibility that if something goes wrong, we have to make it better. We can\u2019t always blame the politicians; we also have to blame ourselves.<\/p>\n
I guess the counter-argument would be that there\u2019s enough talk already, but not enough action on issues such as climate change and social divisions. How do we get from discussion to action?<\/b><\/p>\n
Young people have to go to politics and do it! I think it\u2019s always fascinating that people say things like \u2018yeah, we\u2019ve had discussions for ten or fifteen years, but there\u2019s no change\u2019. Well, then be the change. Go there and change it. If the politicians aren\u2019t doing it, you can go into politics. Everybody can get active and join the political system. And you have to be honest. Sure, it\u2019s better for politicians to say, \u2018I can give you everything, you will be rich\u2019. But that\u2019s not how life works. I\u2019d rather have a politician who says, like Churchill did, that there will be blood, sweat and tears. Or to quote J. F. Kennedy: \u201cWe choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.\u201d<\/p>\n
Why aren\u2019t politicians more honest?<\/b><\/p>\n
I think most actually say things that are true, but we don\u2019t want to hear it. It\u2019s just not fun to be honest. If you go out there and say that your pension doesn\u2019t work, we have to increase the retirement age, here are the numbers, or we have to make flying more expensive \u2013 people don\u2019t like this. We\u2019ve had a lot of crises in Europe from economic crisis to migration crisis and there is this imminent fear that something even more dangerous will happen. On the other hand, the former German finance minister Wolfgang Sch\u00e4uble asked, with regard to the refugee crisis, who in Germany actually earns less money than before the crisis? Nobody. The economy is still booming. It\u2019s important to be honest: there are challenges, but we can get through it.<\/p>\n
We\u2019re getting more and more votes for anti-democratic politicians. How can we combat this wave of populism?<\/b><\/p>\n
You have to go to the people and talk to them. In the villages, in the streets, in the pubs, in the public. Talk about politics and politicians. If your friends and colleagues are not going to vote, ask them why. If they vote for a populist party, ask them if they\u2019ve looked at the programmes because what is in there is really crazy, but most people don\u2019t know it. As soon as they find out, they start to think. We have to take every vote seriously, because every vote counts. Many people see everyone around them get a career, get more money, but they feel left behind. And this is where the populists come in.<\/p>\n
It seems there\u2019s less and less platforms for actually getting together. We don\u2019t even see people different from ourselves.<\/b><\/p>\n
Historically speaking, there were markets and pubs around the corner, the caf\u00e9s, teatime, the church, the barbecue after the church in the US \u2013 a ritual where you\u2019re fulfilling a social need. Markets were important, you met people. We are kind of losing this, because we are trying to regulate everything, and we have a fear of losing control, but these kinds of places need some chaos. One of the most famous markets is in Istanbul and it is complete chaos, but it\u2019s amazing. We have to appreciate this chaos a little bit more. That everybody is welcome, however you look like, whoever you are. But these places are getting more and more commercialised. In Berlin, there were a lot of small pubs that were a melting pot for the people in the area. You went and met interesting people you wouldn\u2019t meet otherwise. As an academic from Switzerland I was able to meet a builder from Germany and talk about life and politics. Today it\u2019s a really expensive bar so I can afford a bit higher prices, but they can\u2019t, they stop going, and I miss them. It\u2019s similar with music festivals. In the beginning it was a revolution from the youth, today you pay several hundred euros. It\u2019s become so much more expensive and so much more regulated what you can or can\u2019t do there. So, you are pushing out people that come for freedom. That\u2019s where we have to be really careful to not lose these spaces.<\/p>\n
Do you think people are tired of democracy?<\/b><\/p>\n
No, I don\u2019t think so. For example, for the last European elections, the attendance numbers went up drastically in Germany. There are a lot of new political parties in Europe. A lot of young people are joining in. Look at the success of En Marche! during the presidential elections in France. People are interested in politics, but they sometimes feel they are not being taken seriously. That\u2019s the worst thing that can happen. We have to be honest and tell them our problems won\u2019t get solved in one or two years, it will be a big effort. In Switzerland, when we built these big tunnels through the Alps, the leaders said it will be a generational project, which will take 10-15 years. It took a bit longer, but we did it, because the politicians were honest from the start that it\u2019s not going to be easy, it\u2019s going to be expensive, we\u2019re going to have problems. So the question was: Are we willing to invest as a society? That is important \u2013 it doesn\u2019t matter if you\u2019re a liberal or a conservative or left or right, you have to be honest that these kinds of initiatives are not easy.<\/p>\n
In Estonia, people sometimes bring up Switzerland as an example to follow, because there\u2019s more direct democracy there. Populists would like to use direct democracy to their gains, for example take away rights from minorities. So, what is there to learn and not to learn from the Swiss democracy?<\/b><\/p>\n
I think populists don\u2019t really understand how it works in Switzerland, because we have protection of minorities in our constitution and as part of our values. The German speaking part of Switzerland is much bigger than the other parts so simply from a numbers perspective we could decide to have German as the language for the whole country. But that\u2019s not how it works. You have to find a solution that works for everybody, even those who lose. You need a common set of values everyone agrees upon. In Switzerland, we agree that we have these votes and we involve everyone into the debate, because only this way we can ensure in the end that even those who lose, accept they have lost. If you look at the votes in Switzerland in the last years, most initiatives coming from the people didn\u2019t work. It\u2019s a misconception that you can do whatever you want with direct democracy. In the end, people are more reasonable as you might think they are at first. I\u2019m a big fan of direct democracy, because it creates responsibility and if you want to implement direct democratic opportunities into your political system, go ahead, but make it about the process \u2013 initiate open debates, look at the facts, look at the numbers, publicly challenge the populists, because often they have no idea what they are talking about. Make sure you have safeguards such as the European Convention of Human Rights, which we are part of. We can\u2019t change everything even if someone wanted to.<\/p>\n
I think this a rather idealistic view, since there is so much misinformation. People don\u2019t even live in the same informational reality anymore, so it\u2019s difficult to even create common ground for debate.<\/b><\/p>\n
That\u2019s what I meant when I said you have to go to places, where it\u2019s not so easy to go to, where people are not academics. Where people are farmers and builders and labourers, hardworking people who don\u2019t have time. We are here today developing ideas \u2013 that is a luxury! A lot of people can\u2019t afford this, they have to work the whole day. What they expect from those that have the time, is to explain what the problems are and what the solutions are. Tell them how it is. Tell them if we want a green economy, it will be difficult, it will cost a lot of money, but it\u2019s worth it, it\u2019s worth fighting for. It\u2019s worth for your children, worth for yourselves, worth for the nature, worth for the future, even worth for the economy. We\u2019re dependent on the import of gas from Russia, oil from the Middle East. Imagine Europe would not be dependent on this. Our foreign policy options, our internal policy options would completely change, we would be so much more influential in the world. Then you go to people and say that. It\u2019ll be an effort, it will take 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, most likely even more, but it will be worth the effort. You have to go there, and you have to talk to people. It\u2019s not easy but we have to do that. And talk to people in a way that you in the end can still get a drink with them. No matter, if you agree or not.<\/p>\n
Don\u2019t you think it\u2019s a bit preachy if intellectuals from the cities go to people to tell them how it is?<\/b><\/p>\n
No. It depends on how you do it. If you go there and say, \u2018look, I\u2019m an intellectual and I\u2019ll tell you how it is\u2019, then yes, definitely. But If you go there and say, \u2018I\u2019m a citizen like you, I have the same problems as you, I also struggle with the taxes, I also struggle with the housing prices\u2019. The people will see that their problems and your problems are not that different. We don\u2019t often see this, because we don\u2019t have time to think about it.<\/p>\n
Are there any good examples on crossing these divides?<\/b><\/p>\n
The amazing thing we have in Switzerland is that we have these votings every three months where we vote on things so there\u2019s always a public debate on the radio, on TV, in every city, in every village. People come together and talk about politics; you can\u2019t get away from all this debate. In Germany, there are many organisations that go to villages. They make regular meet-ups to discuss about political issues in a reasonable and supporting environment. The more they do, the more people will actually start thinking about what is happening. It\u2019s also important to speak their language. If you\u2019re from the academia, you have a terminology that other people might not be used to. You have to speak in a way that is understood. And the first thing you have to do is listen \u2013 listen to what they think, what the problem is, what they want to do. Maybe you have the same problem so you can actually work together. People from the countryside often seem to be stubborn, but they are really great people. If you listen to them, they will listen to you. Maybe you will be the crazy guy from the city with the crazy ideas, but they will respect you for just coming to them and listen. The populists do it. They go there and they listen. We have to do it as well.<\/p>\n
Many young people want to participate in politics, but don\u2019t like the old mechanisms. What would be your advice on how to start your own movement and bring along change?<\/b><\/p>\n
Firstly, political parties need to change. They need to become more open to include younger people and different perspectives. They need to send out the message to young people that you are welcome, we want to have your expertise. We do not elect our candidates according to the time they\u2019ve been in our party, but according to their talents, their interests.<\/p>\n
For young people, two things you are important. First, we are all political people, and if you\u2019re really motivated, go to political events. Be it a panel discussion, workshop at a think tank or an event like this. Meet new people, talk to new people, develop new ideas and if you want to make the next step and organise your own event. If you don\u2019t like it, leave and do something different. Try things out. What\u2019s the worst that can happen? You learn from your failures. Second, it\u2019s never too late to participate and not only influence the decision process but be a changemaker.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Daniel Hardegger, co-founder and former board member of Polis180 e.V., was the opening keynote speaker at the 10. Changemakers Summit in Tartu, Estonia, at the beginning of June. He spoke about the future of democracy, the changing public space and the next generation of leaders. Andrei Liimets of the\u00a0Estonian Good Citizen magazine\u00a0asked the Swiss visionary […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":18,"featured_media":10000020467,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[4,6],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-15730","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-articles","category-frontpage-2"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\n
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Changemakers Summit in Tartu, Estonia, at the beginning of June. He spoke about the future of democracy, the changing public space and the next generation of leaders. 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